Forum Activity for @royb

Thanks for ALL of that, jost.  I have been playing more (my wife finally noticed, so that's a telltale sign right there).  The disadvantage I have with notation, music theory, tabs, etc. is my inability to read music.  I can pick out notes on a scale if you give me enough time, and I can see Jean Ritchie's indications of how to tune the dulcimer in her book on each song, but I can't read music well enough to make sense of anything else.  I've learned guitar ("cowboy chords"), ukulele and Native American flute mainly by ear, and am old enough to have picked up the guitar during the folk scare of the early sixties, giving me a wealth of tunes in my head that I'm beginning to be able to pick out by ear.

As I'm finally beginning to master tuning with wooden pegs, and figuring out which strings and tuning sound good on my instrument, I'm "worrying" less and playing more, as has been suggested.  Thanks

Another hint concerning the myers pickups/microphones: After a embarassing situation where the pickup didn't work (another open mic at a different location) it turned out that you might need an impedance transformer or a passive DI box to get a signal. I guess the other venue plucked me right into one they had at disposal. The passive DI box also has the advantage that it will shield the mic from any phantom power (which might toast it I guess this happened to my mic because at some point it suddenly didn't worked any more. Thanksfully my german music store has good customer service and just sent me a new one without charge). 

The information is a little bit hidden on the Myers website: 
https://www.myerspickups.com/support

In my college days in Germany some fellow students and I  used to have a proverb: "Everything has already been said, but not yet by me" ("Es wurde bereits alles gesagt, aber noch nicht von mir"). It was used to make fun of people who love to hear themselves talk. At the risk of being one here some further thoughts:

First: I agree totally with Ken that you should stop worrying and start playing. I too was quite confused at the beginning  from reading to much about modes/tunings etc pp until I started just playing in Ionian tuning (DAA / CGG). I used tabs from Jean Ritchies Dulcimer book and Gamses "Best dulcimer method yet", later from Strumelias excellent blog.
At some point I wanted to try to play songs in a minor key and just used the given tuning (after some help from this forum). 
Continuing this I ended up playing songs in different tunings for different modes and somehow the whole mode/music theory stuff started to make sense because I heard the musical relation between the different strings. I also started to hear when the tuning sound wrong (still not good enough to tune by ear). 

It just needs time, so stop worrying and start playing. Before I played dulcimer I already messed round with chords on my guitar so I was quite confused by all this theoretical stuff. Why couldn't I just have some chords and started playing?
It got better when I realised, that noter/drone doesn't need chords so is actually easier for beginners but the price is that you need to learn some tunings. 

Second: For actually doing this two other books might be helpful  (they definitively were for me!):
First Neal Hellman's dulcimer chord book. Although it's for chord playing it was a big help for me when I started playing noter/drone. Why? Because he also has a big introduction of the several tunings and modes, something most chord instruction books don't cover. He need to do this however since he also gives chords for different tunings to give his readers and students more options in their repertoire. 
https://gourd.com/Books.html
Another great one is Mark Nelsons collection of dulcimer tabs for old time songs:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/34496115-favorite-old-time-american-songs-for-dulcimer 

He also gives a lot of differnet tunings without getting to theoretical. He just says something like: Use this tuning for this song or any other tuning for the mode. 
Although many of the tabs are for chord style there are one for noter/drone too (I learnt The Cuckoo and Wedding dress from his tab). And like Hellman he uses chords for different modes, to give his readers more options. 

Although I'm strictly a noter/drone player I would recommend both books to any beginner (with Jean Ritchies Dulcimer Book and Dulcimer People which you already have) no matter which style they actually want to approach.

Just my two cents.

Best regards, Jost.

Thanks Salt, Ron, and Robin for you comments. I, too, thought of Mike, Doug, and all the other folks I've met in Hindman over the years. I have been ins several floods here in Pennsylvania and involved in the cleanup afterwards, but none have been as devastating as this flooding in eastern Kentucky. Our area Lutheran churches were just getting ready to send some work crews to western Kentucky to help with the rebuilding after the tornadoes. I suspect we will be doing the same as eastern Kentucky cleans up and prepares to rebuild. I usually make donations through Lutheran Disaster Response who coordinates with other religious organizations and government entities in providing relief and rebuilding aid. I will also be making direct donations to the Appalachian Artisan Center and other folks in Hindman.

Like Robin, I have been unable to view the video for which Salt provided a link past about 4:20; just after she gets inside the Troublesome Creek Instruments building. I hope sometime to be able to see the entire video.

Ken

"The dulcimer sings a sweet song."

@ron-gibson, I've thought of Mike Slone, too.    

I live here in old coal country in southern Perry County OH and since the hills aren't nearly as big as those in SE KY, we do not get walls of water as you describe.  We do, though, see flooding due to many areas not having much/any top soil for good rain in-soak due to mining (some done many decades ago and some done more recently).  My heart is with all touched by the awful flooding. 

So true Ron...........if you have never seen that sort of thing you can't imagine the speed and power of those things.  Tragic situation all the way around.

Yep -- some instruments (seemingly identical to others of the same model by the same maker) just seem to want to be in a certain tuning; others will swap tunings and sound good in all of them.  Whether it's internal instrument volume, strings of differing sizes and tensions, tensions on other parts made certain ways or what; your guess is as good as mine.  

Related to my original question, I've been trying different tunings, and especially different combinations of notes, high or low, to see how the instrument reacts.  It appears, at least to my ears, that the problem with the melody string sounding sharp or flat disappears somewhat the higher I tune the strings (at the moment, 12, 14, and an unwound 20).  Presently in DAA, with very little problem noted, and I think the instrument sounds better there, than my original CGG, and definitely better than if I try to go any lower.  I don't know enough about sound dynamics, but I do know from guitar playing that there is sometimes a "sweet spot" in the way of string gauge and tuning on any particular instrument, depending on size and wood used.  I believe the dulcimer top on this one is spruce (see attached photo).  Am I on the right path, here?

As mentioned earlier, I can't lower the bridge at all, and my work on the nut appears to have given the strings at that end a somewhat decent height.  Thanks

dulcimer-b.pdf - 429KB

Da book, da book!!

[quote="Strumelia"]

Of course, if you can't sing either of those songs, you're in trouble. lolol

Well then bim-bim-BOM wouldn't help either!

Of course, if you can't sing either of those songs, you're in trouble. lolol

"Do you hear what I hear" is "My dog has fleas" for the dulcimer!  Thanks for sharing that, @john-w-mckinstry.

Hats off to those who continue to try to bring music to nursing home residents in these dificult times.

what a gem that Jolene is. and great name too!  <3

Hey i like that Do you hear what i hear trick too! 

Jolene just turned 1 year old; I adopted her about 8 months ago from Berkeley Humane.

 jolene_bday.jpg - 90KB

No caption needed.

Glad you liked it.  It sort of comforting in a day when otherwise we are dependent on electronics to harken back to simpler times. Speaking of which, I just found out that you can dial an app. on your Smartphone called, Cleartune. You then place the phone on your dulcimer to tune it.  Needless to say, I am not a techie and will stick with my Korg Tuner or the old reliable, "Do you hear what I hear?"

John, that is so coooool!!! I'll remember that one and use it.

Thanks John.  An interesting alternative to bim-bim-BOM!

Responding to Royb and others looking for a simple way to tune to DAa or DAd, I found the suggestion of Joe Collins, a noted dulcimer teacher, very helpful. In his book: "Dulcimer Basics, A Mt. Dulcimer Primer",he suggests that in the sung phrase, "Do you hear what I hear.." in the Christmas carol, are the notes or intervals needed for DAd or DAa.

"Do you"=D (bass string);  "hear what"=A (middle string); "I"=d (melody string for DAd) and "hear"=(a)meldody string) DAa.  Used with permission from Joe.  Hope this is helpful. John

Thanks Robin. Interesting. I have Kevin Roth's two record instructional but not the booklet that would have come with it.

Roy B, I have this book, put out by Homespun, and it came with a recording:

https://folkways.si.edu/jean-ritchie/traditional-mountain-dulcimer-taught/book/smithsonian

I am a straight by-ear player and have listened to Jean's instruction (which accompanies the Homespun book) many many times.  There is also an older instructional recording Jean did and it is offered by Smithsonian/Folkways.  If I were only going to have one of them, I'd go with the Homespun.  I only include the link so you can see what it looks like-- I'm thinking I purchased my copy straight from Homespun.      

Robin, Homespun Instruction? Are you talking about a book or recording?

@lisa-golladay Beethoven and Jean Ritchie (from her Homespun instruction tuning description-- not the early Folkways version)!  

@royb I'm not a great player yet have been at it since '05.  Though modes haven't sunk in all the way for me, it hasn't stopped me from making music one bit.  Still enjoying the journey!  Happy strumming to you!  

Thanks Lisa. I agree with everything you wrote!

Ironically, the reason I recommend "In Search of..." to beginners is because it gets them tuned up and making music right away. No tab, hardly any theory -- just strum and listen while you play. Not until Chapter 6 do alternate modal tunings show up. So this is a point on which Force and d'Ossche agree with our own Ken H (and also me). Put down the book and play

I speak from experience, since I am another person who likes to gobble up information. It's fun to plunge into the deep end, but the only way to really grasp how a dulcimer works is to play it. The modes will make sense eventually, but not until you've been playing for a while. This is especially true for guitarists, most of whom need to let go of their prior training and allow the dulcimer to lead them down some winding roads that don't seem to be going anywhere... yet.

A lot of the old books have "creative" ways to describe tunings. We didn't have electronic tuners and you couldn't always count on having a piano, tuning fork or pitchpipe when you needed it. The "X+3" stuff is confusing and I'm glad we don't need it nowadays. CFCC is a reverse Ionian tuning that puts you in the key of F.

The Beethoven version of the t-shirt would be Bim Bim Bim BOM, wouldn't it?

I agree with with Ken H.

I do have one last thing to point out, He bases all his tunings as starting on the melody string [being D for example]. The current concept is to base tunings on the bass string. This difference seems to affect the results in various ways.

The Cripple Creek dulcimer book instructs one to tune to the key of G for ionian mode, but without using a reverse tuning.

They instruct to tune the bass string to the G below middle C for bass string (G3 in octave labeling), then to the D (D4) right above middle C for the middle and melody strings. (Gddd for ionian key-of-G, as opposed to our typical key-of-D ionian tuning DAAA which has all strings below middle C). 

(Note that this Gddd 'might' strain your bass and middle strings if they are heavy gauge or if you have a long vsl.)

Thanks.  I've probably read Jean Ritchie's book about 4 times now, emphasizing different aspects each time.  I've also enjoyed her "Dulcimer People".  I'll check out Cripple Creek Dulcimer (but don't tell Ken Hulme - he wants me to put down the books and play more ; )

Yes it's a mess.  If the video would play through for you you would see tons of instruments just plain ruined......warped, glue not holding etc.  Let alone some amazing machinery soaked.......and the dulcimers just soaked........I read they need about $25,000 bucks just to clean up the place................then we have the other side of the coin with people displaced, homes destroyed and folks dead and/or still missing...............prayers, money and lots of work needed.

Thank you for sharing the video, @salt-springs.  For some reason, I have been unable to watch past the 4:20 (or so) mark in the film yet am sure the damage is as awful as I can imagine from other images I have seen.  

I've made donation and am guessing donations will be needed for a very long time.  Just a bit ago, I saw where more heavy rain is forecast for the area already hit by floods.  :(

Roy -- it's your journey -- enjoy.

New video inside Troublesome Creek Guitar Factory........worse than you can imagine. Video was posted by the Development director of the Artisan center.

www.facebook.com/AACHindman/videos/3247264138892023

https://www.artisancenter.net/post/picking-up-the-pieces?fbclid=IwAR0sPkeTsARcnI1ACASSdfLHHDRexfOvwd-VY-0wvfFnQJmnyCg6CH2Rnck

I do second Dusty's recommendation for reading Jean Ritchie's Dulcimer Book.  She starts from the standpoint of playing traditional melody-drone style.  Not that it's wrong to gobble up all the information you can, I tend to do that as well! 

Another good starting-out book is Cripple Creek Dulcimer, by Bud and Donna Ford.  That's another "somewhat older" book, and it teaches about the various modes and how to tune to them.  As I remember it's less focused on chords. 

Those are some of the books I cut my dulcimer teeth on when I was learning in the mid-90's.  I love the modal tunings.  One thing I like about the 6+ fret is that it gives me two modes in one tuning. 

(By the way, I want a bim-bim-BOM button too!  Or maybe a T-shirt...)

Dusty, thanks for your very clear explanation.  I may get around to switching string gauge order at some point.

Thanks for your advice, Ken.  I am playing a lot, experimenting with tunings, getting frustrated with my old, wood peg tuners and my (continuously) sharp melody string, both of which I've mentioned elsewhere.  I do have a few songs down in Ionian, and a couple in Mixolydian (although without the 6+ fret that's a bit harder).  I switch back and forth between the 1969 model and my smaller Apple Creek, and am trying different string gauges on both.

However, I am who I am, so when I get into a new hobby or subject, I try to gobble up as much as I can on its history, background, methods, etc.  I am grateful that the dulcimer lends itself to initially sounding decent and playing tunes without much if any instruction or theory, except for YouTube videos (kudos again to Strumelia, and to Bing Futch, among others).

Thanks again. 

@RoyB, when I first picked up the dulcimer, I found discussions about modal tunings to be confusing and maddening.  I had a reasonable (though certainly not expert) understanding of music theory but it made no sense to me.  And today, I usually leave discussions about modes to others. I only joined here because your initial question was about an open chord tuning and not really about modes per se.

Why do I find the concept of modal tuning so confusing?  A given tuning is only limited to a single mode if you 1) have no extra frets; and 2) only play the melody on the melody string.  And even then, many folks songs are based on pentatonic (5-note scales) rather than modes, so they still don't correspond to the mode that gives a tuning its name.

Similarly, I found the concept of "reverse" tunings to be wholly unnecessary and confusing.  But the logic is not complicated.  

In the traditional style of drone play, the drones must be the first and fifth notes of the scale. That is why when we tune to the key of D, our bass and middle strings are always D and A respectively, and when we retune, we only change the melody string.  Similarly, in the key of C, the drones must be C and G.

But what if you wanted to play in the key of G?  Your drones would be G and D.  On a standard dulcimer, it would be really hard to tune your bass string to G.  It would either be too floppy to make any noise or you'd break it tuning up.  But what if you switched the order of the drones?  You could easily keep your bass string tuned to D and tune your middle string down from A to G.  Then you tune your melody string to d (an octave above the bass) and instead of a normal GDD tuning, you have a "reversed" DGd tuning.

That's all it is.  A "reverse" tuning just means the drones are reversed.  It's that simple.

Roy --- I think you're suffering from information overload!   You're reading In Search of The Wild Dulcimer, which is about as far from Noter & Drone as you can possibly get!  I know.  When I started there was only Jean Ritchie's first book.  Then along came In Search Of... and it just confused the heck out of me.  What Robert does, and what traditional Noter & Drone players do are not quite opposite poles of a magnet.  I've known Robert for years, and am amazed by his skills as a singer-player-songwriter.  But I'm never gonna get within a lightyear of what he does, and decided long ago it wasn't worth bashing my head against the wall in frustration.

I respectfully suggest that you put down the books, forget the theory, and just play.  Spend time getting to know the diatonic fretboard and where the notes are on it and how to move that noter fluidly from place to place. Get half a dozen songs in your repertoire in Ionian and half a dozen more in Mixolydian.